Is the Expat party in Buenos Aires coming to an end?

[GlasgowJohn]

The beauty of EXPATSBA is that we have a nice range of opinions with posters with an interesting range of political opinions and economic schools of thought - keep it up!

 

[fool in love]

The beauty of EXPATSBA is that we have a nice range of opinions with posters with an interesting range of political opinions and economic schools of thought - keep it up!

I agree totally. I just happened to see a post from @BuySellBA on Twitter. How do other people find this forum? @GlasgowJohn how did you find this forum? I like your posts by the way. With a name like that are you Argentine or expat? I appreciate the diversity of opinions and healthy debate. Too many forums are an echo chamber of all same ideas. This one definitely isn't that!

 

[GlasgowJohn]

@fool in love, same as you , saw a post from the Real Estate expert on Twitter and here I am posting away!

Born in Scotland, and found my way here to Argentina 15 years ago after traveling all over North And South America and living in Spain for quite a few years as well.

 

[Avocado]

The beauty of EXPATSBA is that we have a nice range of opinions with posters with an interesting range of political opinions and economic schools of thought - keep it up!

Fortunately some of us are totally realistic and some of you are in total denial of how bad things are getting and what mistakes Milei is making.

Look at Clarin. They did an entire page dedicated to explaining how supermarket prices in Buenos Aires are almost the same as in London or Miami because of Milei's crazy inflation peak last few weeks.

Inflación en dólares: fideos, gaseosas y latas en Buenos Aires como en los súper de Miami o Londres – VIVE La Plata

Según un relevamiento que hizo Clarín entre supermercados de Estados Unidos, Inglaterra y México, los productos que se venden en góndolas en Buenos Aires ya registran precios similares a los de muchos lugares del extranjero y respecto a hace unas semanas atrás. En algunos casos incluso se pagan...

vivelaplata.com.ar

 

[Canada Goose]

Here are other nations that had to endure similar shotgun changes to the economy.

Let's talk about how New Zealand pulled a total '80s makeover without any dictator fashion tips. The UK, too, had its own style overhaul, and Sweden hit the runway for a '90s rebrand – all of this without needing a heavy-handed fashion police. Germany, post-war and post-dictatorship drama, went from zero to "miracle economy" real quick.

And then there's the post-Soviet squad – Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia – strutting their stuff in the '90s. Poland? Oh, they did a twirl too, but they kinda relied on some executive magic to jazz up their routine (think Argentina's political approach but with a bit more pizzazz).

So, my point is, it's not always the end-of-the-world Netflix drama. There are more success stories from these makeovers than you'd find in a Hollywood rom-com. Who said turning heads and making changes can't be a fabulous affair?

While it's tempting to envision Argentina following a similar trajectory, the reality is that each of these nations is distinctly unique. The disciplined approach observed in countries within the BRICS alliance is not necessarily mirrored in Argentina. Despite economic mismanagement, the adherence to laws and order has been a consistent trait in those nations.

Drawing a closer comparison, Serbia emerges as a noteworthy contender, having navigated a staggering 300 million percent inflation over a two-year period. However, their success in overcoming such challenges did not necessarily translate into sustained prosperity. Much like Argentinians, Serbians often exhibit a sense of superiority rooted in their historical achievements, a penchant for blaming external factors for predicaments, and a proclivity for shortcuts. Nevertheless, even in this parallel, Serbia appears to maintain a greater degree of order within the nation.

It's worth noting that while a shock can serve as a catalyst, it remains ineffectual without a meticulously crafted and executed plan to accompany it.

 

[Vero]

While it's tempting to envision Argentina following a similar trajectory, the reality is that each of these nations is distinctly unique. The disciplined approach observed in countries within the BRICS alliance is not necessarily mirrored in Argentina. Despite economic mismanagement, the adherence to laws and order has been a consistent trait in those nations.

Drawing a closer comparison, Serbia emerges as a noteworthy contender, having navigated a staggering 300 million percent inflation over a two-year period. However, their success in overcoming such challenges did not necessarily translate into sustained prosperity. Much like Argentinians, Serbians often exhibit a sense of superiority rooted in their historical achievements, a penchant for blaming external factors for predicaments, and a proclivity for shortcuts. Nevertheless, even in this parallel, Serbia appears to maintain a greater degree of order within the nation.

It's worth noting that while a shock can serve as a catalyst, it remains ineffectual without a meticulously crafted and executed plan to accompany it.

Ah, let's not forget the dazzling geopolitical backdrop! Back in the day, the US was a beacon of freedom and economic brilliance – but hey, times change, am I right? Now, where on this spinning globe can one escape to? Talented folks are bidding farewell to the UK, Canada, and New Zealand, thanks to the exhilarating hard left turns their countries took post-pandemia. If you can't stand the heat in El Salvador and your net worth isn't hitting the eight-figure jackpot for a VIP entry into Singapore, well, where else is left on this grand global escape route?
Argentina, my friends, the belle of the glue factory ball! Because, of course, when you're looking for options, why not pick the prettiest horse in the glue factory? I betcha I'm not the lone genius eyeing Argentina as the ultimate haven and placing my bets accordingly. Brace yourselves, productive people – the land of tango and beef might just be your next escape plan from the madness elsewhere. Tango, anyone?

 

[All the Answers]

Fortunately some of us are totally realistic and some of you are in total denial of how bad things are getting and what mistakes Milei is making.

Look at Clarin. They did an entire page dedicated to explaining how supermarket prices in Buenos Aires are almost the same as in London or Miami because of Milei's crazy inflation peak last few weeks.

Inflación en dólares: fideos, gaseosas y latas en Buenos Aires como en los súper de Miami o Londres – VIVE La Plata

Según un relevamiento que hizo Clarín entre supermercados de Estados Unidos, Inglaterra y México, los productos que se venden en góndolas en Buenos Aires ya registran precios similares a los de muchos lugares del extranjero y respecto a hace unas semanas atrás. En algunos casos incluso se pagan...

vivelaplata.com.ar

Observing the economic landscape in Argentina often feels like navigating uncharted territory, where conventional economic principles seem to take a detour. Consider the following observations, and I'm keen to hear your perspectives:

1. The peculiar phenomenon where stores, be it furniture, specialty, or hardware, remain operational despite a conspicuous absence of customers, raises intriguing questions. It's almost as if these establishments serve as mere facades, yet this perplexing scenario isn't confined to specific locales like Congresso or Palermo but extends elsewhere.
2. The fluctuations in prices, especially in the aftermath of Milei's influence, present a confounding picture. The stark contrast between these prices, often denominated in dollars, and the reported average monthly salary of approximately $500, as shared in some threads on this forum prompts contemplation on the dynamics of purchasing power.
3. A counterintuitive trend emerges when demand wanes – instead of witnessing a decrease in prices, there appears to be an upward trajectory, even for items devoid of imported components. This raises inquiries into the market dynamics and pricing strategies adopted in response to shifting demand.
4. The intriguing practice of discarding perishable goods rather than adjusting prices to facilitate inventory turnover poses a conundrum. The rationale behind prioritizing disposal over adopting price adjustments warrants exploration.
5. Lastly, instances of businesses setting exorbitant prices, as exemplified by Samsung's $3,700 USD phone, appear to defy economic logic. The discrepancy between these prices and more accessible alternatives, such as acquiring the phone during a trip to Miami, underscores the incongruities within the Argentine market.

These observations invite contemplation on the unique economic dynamics at play and prompt further examination into the factors contributing to such distinctive phenomena.

 

[Finance Prof]

Enter the enigma of Argentina's Economic Law: a paradoxical dance where, counter to conventional wisdom, vendors opt to elevate prices when faced with a decline in demand, all in a calculated effort to sustain total revenue. The question lingering in the economic ether: Can this perpetual escalation endure?

 

[Sylvie]

Observing the economic landscape in Argentina often feels like navigating uncharted territory, where conventional economic principles seem to take a detour. Consider the following observations, and I'm keen to hear your perspectives:

1. The peculiar phenomenon where stores, be it furniture, specialty, or hardware, remain operational despite a conspicuous absence of customers, raises intriguing questions. It's almost as if these establishments serve as mere facades, yet this perplexing scenario isn't confined to specific locales like Congresso or Palermo but extends elsewhere.
2. The fluctuations in prices, especially in the aftermath of Milei's influence, present a confounding picture. The stark contrast between these prices, often denominated in dollars, and the reported average monthly salary of approximately $500, as shared in some threads on this forum prompts contemplation on the dynamics of purchasing power.
3. A counterintuitive trend emerges when demand wanes – instead of witnessing a decrease in prices, there appears to be an upward trajectory, even for items devoid of imported components. This raises inquiries into the market dynamics and pricing strategies adopted in response to shifting demand.
4. The intriguing practice of discarding perishable goods rather than adjusting prices to facilitate inventory turnover poses a conundrum. The rationale behind prioritizing disposal over adopting price adjustments warrants exploration.
5. Lastly, instances of businesses setting exorbitant prices, as exemplified by Samsung's $3,700 USD phone, appear to defy economic logic. The discrepancy between these prices and more accessible alternatives, such as acquiring the phone during a trip to Miami, underscores the incongruities within the Argentine market.

These observations invite contemplation on the unique economic dynamics at play and prompt further examination into the factors contributing to such distinctive phenomena.

Embarking on my quest for antique treasures to spruce up my apartment, I stumbled upon a quaint shop with an enticing window display. Seizing the opportune moment when the door appeared ajar, I knocked, and after a brief interlude, the somewhat surprised shopkeeper welcomed me in. Expressing my quest for a splendid desk, she led me through a labyrinth of assorted treasures, where, amidst the clutter, a less-than-invigorated bird met its final resting place – swiftly attended to by my eccentric guide.

Having once danced in the realms of the antique business back in Seattle, I'm no stranger to the idiosyncrasies of dealers holding onto items with a fervent belief that time will transform them into the next big thing. The desk's price wasn't entirely unjust, but the idea of locals navigating a path through expired fauna for a purchase seemed somewhat far-fetched.

Interestingly, a parallel saga unfolds in the Brazilian housing market, where I'm attempting to sell my home. Two blocks away, the same house has lingered on the market since I acquired mine years ago. Like clockwork, the price tag experiences routine inflation, tethered to news of a housing market surge. These properties, it appears, are not assets to be willingly relinquished but rather cherished lottery tickets, clung to in the hopes of a future windfall.

In this peculiar realm, prices aren't dictated by the invisible hand of market demand but are, instead, calibrated to the financial needs of the sellers. As prices ascend with the market tide, sellers, motivated by the need for more moolah, ceremoniously adjust their asking prices. To put it bluntly, it feels like a bit of a "third-world mentality" approach, where financial necessity trumps market dynamics.

 

[All the Answers]

Oh, brace yourselves for the impending revelation, folks! But, you know, my highly scientific Magic 8 Ball has graciously shared its profound wisdom, and here's the dazzling prophecy:

 

[Fingerless]

Observing the economic landscape in Argentina often feels like navigating uncharted territory, where conventional economic principles seem to take a detour. Consider the following observations, and I'm keen to hear your perspectives:

1. The peculiar phenomenon where stores, be it furniture, specialty, or hardware, remain operational despite a conspicuous absence of customers, raises intriguing questions. It's almost as if these establishments serve as mere facades, yet this perplexing scenario isn't confined to specific locales like Congresso or Palermo but extends elsewhere.
2. The fluctuations in prices, especially in the aftermath of Milei's influence, present a confounding picture. The stark contrast between these prices, often denominated in dollars, and the reported average monthly salary of approximately $500, as shared in some threads on this forum prompts contemplation on the dynamics of purchasing power.
3. A counterintuitive trend emerges when demand wanes – instead of witnessing a decrease in prices, there appears to be an upward trajectory, even for items devoid of imported components. This raises inquiries into the market dynamics and pricing strategies adopted in response to shifting demand.
4. The intriguing practice of discarding perishable goods rather than adjusting prices to facilitate inventory turnover poses a conundrum. The rationale behind prioritizing disposal over adopting price adjustments warrants exploration.
5. Lastly, instances of businesses setting exorbitant prices, as exemplified by Samsung's $3,700 USD phone, appear to defy economic logic. The discrepancy between these prices and more accessible alternatives, such as acquiring the phone during a trip to Miami, underscores the incongruities within the Argentine market.

These observations invite contemplation on the unique economic dynamics at play and prompt further examination into the factors contributing to such distinctive phenomena.

Oh, the joys of navigating the not-so-normal wonders of Argentina! I've had my fair share of attempts at enlightening the locals about these peculiarities, only to be met with the classic "Well, that's Argentina" response. It's practically a national catchphrase, isn't it?

And speaking of things that make you question reality, let's talk about the baked goods drama. Back in my hometown, if the bread survives till the afternoon, it gets the coveted half-price label, and expired goodies? Oh, there's a whole discounted aisle for those treasures. But here? Freshness is a rare sighting, and discounts for aged baked delights? Not in this lifetime.

Now, let's dive into the culinary masterpiece that is burnt food in restaurants. It's a spectacle, really. They serve it up with a poker face that could rival a professional card player. I'm left wondering how they manage to straight-facedly present something charred. And what's even more astounding is that the locals don't flinch – not a blink, not a peep. Burnt to a crisp? Well, that's just another day in the Argentine dining adventure, it seems.

Cheers to the unburnt mysteries of life!

 

[Jeep]

Oh, the joys of navigating the not-so-normal wonders of Argentina! I've had my fair share of attempts at enlightening the locals about these peculiarities, only to be met with the classic "Well, that's Argentina" response. It's practically a national catchphrase, isn't it?

And speaking of things that make you question reality, let's talk about the baked goods drama. Back in my hometown, if the bread survives till the afternoon, it gets the coveted half-price label, and expired goodies? Oh, there's a whole discounted aisle for those treasures. But here? Freshness is a rare sighting, and discounts for aged baked delights? Not in this lifetime.

Now, let's dive into the culinary masterpiece that is burnt food in restaurants. It's a spectacle, really. They serve it up with a poker face that could rival a professional card player. I'm left wondering how they manage to straight-facedly present something charred. And what's even more astounding is that the locals don't flinch – not a blink, not a peep. Burnt to a crisp? Well, that's just another day in the Argentine dining adventure, it seems.

Cheers to the unburnt mysteries of life!

Ah, the Argentine saga of nonsensical prices, where the nonchalant response is practically part of the national anthem.

Let's stroll down memory lane, shall we? Under CFK's reign, the humble (and let's be honest, not stellar) cup of coffee once outpriced London, courtesy of some cosmic change in the day. Ah, the days when Argentina decided to play in the expensive league while delivering a questionable quality show. And Alberto had his moment too, with a mysterious disappearance of prices for fridges and phones, only to resurrect with prices soaring into the stratosphere. It's like the grand unveiling of a chaotic pricing circus every time a major change waltzes into town. The only strategy? Grab some popcorn and wait for the mayhem to subside.

Now, let's talk utility bills – my electricity costs less than a kilo of ice cream. Wrap your mind around that one. But hey, we're all basking in the glow of that "cheaper than ice cream" energy.

Then there's the financial survival dance, a melody everyone in Argentina seems to know by heart. The "here today, gone tomorrow" anthem echoing through the streets. It's a mentality born out of the wild economic terrain, where businesses and folks alike navigate the distorted landscape painted by a lack of competition and government policies that would make any economist do a double take.

And why let good food go to waste if no one's complaining? The quality seekers hit the bakery early, while the rest get a dose of burned cuisine and a free cafecito and postre for their troubles. No tears, no complaints – just another day in the Argentine symphony of financial survival.

 

[retiredbanker]

Fortunately some of us are totally realistic and some of you are in total denial of how bad things are getting and what mistakes Milei is making.

Look at Clarin. They did an entire page dedicated to explaining how supermarket prices in Buenos Aires are almost the same as in London or Miami because of Milei's crazy inflation peak last few weeks.

Inflación en dólares: fideos, gaseosas y latas en Buenos Aires como en los súper de Miami o Londres – VIVE La Plata

Según un relevamiento que hizo Clarín entre supermercados de Estados Unidos, Inglaterra y México, los productos que se venden en góndolas en Buenos Aires ya registran precios similares a los de muchos lugares del extranjero y respecto a hace unas semanas atrás. En algunos casos incluso se pagan...

vivelaplata.com.ar

Alrighty, buckle up for the thrilling update on the Nampe Inflation Index – still standing strong at a cool $1450 or, if you fancy the decimal dance, about $1.45 per bottle. You know, the kind of index that would make the stock market green with envy.

Now, here's a hot tip: if you're feeling brave, venture into the online jungle of Publix or Winn-Dixie ads in the Miami area. Spoiler alert – the rare exceptions aside, those food prices might just give you a spontaneous hair curling session. Forget hair salons, just check out the grocery aisle for a new 'do. All these people trying to argue that prices in Argentina are the same as the USA are delusional. Sure, you might be able to spot a few things but the prices of things in the USA will make your head spin. Switch over to the West Coast and you may vomit.

 

[Uncle Wong]

Oh, the riveting saga of apartment prices – a timeless tale of consistency and logic, naturally. I have been looking online at real estate prices. I know they have gone down by 50% in some neighborhoods but they are starting to go up now. But I have a scenario that I'm confused by.

Picture this gem in Villa Crespo – listed at the exact same price for an impressive seven-year stretch. And no, it's not some eccentric owner with a penchant for consistency; it's brought to you by a top-tier real estate company. Because who needs a price adjustment when you've got the magic touch of perpetual listing?

But wait, there's more! The place I had my sights on vanished from the digital realms of Zonaprop, like a stealthy magician's trick, yet the sign on the balcony held its ground. Lo and behold, the agent decided a price hike was in order – a casual jump from $120,000 to a grand $160,000. I mean, why settle for mere sales when you can spice things up a tremendous % markup? It's like real estate acrobatics that defy the laws of financial gravity – truly a head-scratcher for the ages.

 

[Larry]

Oh, the riveting saga of apartment prices – a timeless tale of consistency and logic, naturally. I have been looking online at real estate prices. I know they have gone down by 50% in some neighborhoods but they are starting to go up now. But I have a scenario that I'm confused by.

Picture this gem in Villa Crespo – listed at the exact same price for an impressive seven-year stretch. And no, it's not some eccentric owner with a penchant for consistency; it's brought to you by a top-tier real estate company. Because who needs a price adjustment when you've got the magic touch of perpetual listing?

But wait, there's more! The place I had my sights on vanished from the digital realms of Zonaprop, like a stealthy magician's trick, yet the sign on the balcony held its ground. Lo and behold, the agent decided a price hike was in order – a casual jump from $120,000 to a grand $160,000. I mean, why settle for mere sales when you can spice things up a tremendous % markup? It's like real estate acrobatics that defy the laws of financial gravity – truly a head-scratcher for the ages.

Oh, here's a knee-slapper for you: those folks are playing the classic real estate game of "my place is worth more because the place I want is pricier." It's like a real-life Monopoly move – the price of their dream pad goes up, so naturally, they hit the "Raise the Price" button on their own listing. Serious about selling? Please, they're just here for the laughs. Time to do yourself a favor and swiftly move on from that real estate rollercoaster!

 

[GlasgowJohn]

Oh, the riveting saga of apartment prices – a timeless tale of consistency and logic, naturally. I have been looking online at real estate prices. I know they have gone down by 50% in some neighborhoods but they are starting to go up now. But I have a scenario that I'm confused by.

Picture this gem in Villa Crespo – listed at the exact same price for an impressive seven-year stretch. And no, it's not some eccentric owner with a penchant for consistency; it's brought to you by a top-tier real estate company. Because who needs a price adjustment when you've got the magic touch of perpetual listing?

But wait, there's more! The place I had my sights on vanished from the digital realms of Zonaprop, like a stealthy magician's trick, yet the sign on the balcony held its ground. Lo and behold, the agent decided a price hike was in order – a casual jump from $120,000 to a grand $160,000. I mean, why settle for mere sales when you can spice things up a tremendous % markup? It's like real estate acrobatics that defy the laws of financial gravity – truly a head-scratcher for the ages. sellers bluff , offer him $110k

Call the sellers bluff. If you really like the place, offer the guy $110k.

 

[earlyretirement]

Oh, the riveting saga of apartment prices – a timeless tale of consistency and logic, naturally. I have been looking online at real estate prices. I know they have gone down by 50% in some neighborhoods but they are starting to go up now. But I have a scenario that I'm confused by.

Picture this gem in Villa Crespo – listed at the exact same price for an impressive seven-year stretch. And no, it's not some eccentric owner with a penchant for consistency; it's brought to you by a top-tier real estate company. Because who needs a price adjustment when you've got the magic touch of perpetual listing?

But wait, there's more! The place I had my sights on vanished from the digital realms of Zonaprop, like a stealthy magician's trick, yet the sign on the balcony held its ground. Lo and behold, the agent decided a price hike was in order – a casual jump from $120,000 to a grand $160,000. I mean, why settle for mere sales when you can spice things up a tremendous % markup? It's like real estate acrobatics that defy the laws of financial gravity – truly a head-scratcher for the ages.

Call the sellers bluff. If you really like the place, offer the guy $110k.

I've purchased and sold several hundreds of properties in Buenos Aires and it's just crazy here but many sellers won't sell unless they get "their #". And the trickiest part is "what is the #"?! Since there are NO mortgages here people often times just come up with some arbitrary #. It doesn't have to be fair or at market levels. They just get a # stuck in their head. Or some people remember what the prices were at the peak in 2018/2019 and they had offers then and didn't take it so they will just keep that # stuck in their head even though in many areas property prices fell up to 50% from peak levels.

There is no rhyme or reason but many of these people aren't desperate. It's not like in the USA or UK or many other countries where the holding costs are very high to "hold" a property. In the USA, the vast majority of properties are purchased with a mortgage and many people are leveraged to the hilt. Add in mortgage, HOA fees, monthly expenses, high property taxes, utility bills, maintenance of the property and people get desperate to sell.

In Buenos Aires you have people that have $0 mortgage, non-existing HOA fees if they have a house or PH, almost no one pays property taxes even though they are supposed to. Utility fees are almost nothing. And it doesn't really cost them to hold. Plus, it's not like they have anything really to invest in. Most locals put most of their investment in land or "bricks" so often times they only will sell when they want to buy something else. Either downsize or buy something bigger. So they just hold.

I also have had investors that had the same philosophy. Sometimes they weren't in any hurry at all to sell and making a very strong ROI making USD $ doing high end Airbnb's. So they would get an offer, reject it and tell me they would sell if someone offers them $XXX,XXX. I'd tell them that is WAY above normal rates but just about every single one of my clients that wanted to exit Argentina real estate did in 2018/2019 at the peak of the market. Some of these apartments, I bought for $47,000 at the bottom and sold for $200,000 USD at the top. This was for a STUDIO apartment in Palermo.

Now for a bit more than that I am buying up nice 2 bedroom 2 bathroom with balcony in Palermo. People really need to understand the dynamics of Buenos Aires real estate. Some owners are in NO hurry to sell and won't unless they get their #. Many times when I purchased, even if I offered them their #, they didn't end up selling. So lots of people in Argentina are flaky.

One thing I learned is there is always something else. Never fall in love with a particular property. There will always be something else that comes up. For me, I always bought with my head. I never planned to live in any of these. It's just a straight investment.

In other places like Mexico, it's still an investment but I ponder how much time in retirement I will spend in it and buying in properties that have an amazing view and I can see myself spending time parts of the year in retirement. I own a few properties in Mexico that I will spend time with once I retire. In Argentina, I'm planning to build my own luxury residential tower and most likely will buy the penthouse unit in that tower.

Argentina is a funny place when you look at prices so you have to totally understand why you see some places for sale for years or you see yo-yo pricing on it.

 

[James Bond]

Expat party ended for me. I'm moving to Spain in a few months. I am here in Barcelona now. I didn't realize there was so much crime. I have watched 4 people get their purses stolen.. Amazing to see the amount of crime here! Makes me realize just how safe Buenos Aires is.

 

[GlasgowJohn]

Expat party ended for me. I'm moving to Spain in a few months. I am here in Barcelona now. I didn't realize there was so much crime. I have watched 4 people get their purses stolen.. Amazing to see the amount of crime here! Makes me realize just how safe Buenos Aires is.

Barcelona is probably the worst big city in Spain for street crime- pickpockets are rife.

Madrid is much safer.

 

[James Bond]

Barcelona is probably the worst big city in Spain for street crime- pickpockets are rife.

Madrid is much safer.

I have visited Barcelona many years ago but I don't remember it being this bad. Almost everyone wears their bags in front of them here. Those that don't get robbed. You are right. Madrid reminds me of Buenos Aires. We are heading to Malaga which isn't bad at all. Has Barcelona always been this bad? It blows my mind with how horrible economic situation in Argentina that Buenos Aires is very safe.