Argentina's debt to the IMF grows 36% in a year under Milei and exceeds US$57 billion

[VINO]

Thanks Silvia, I certainly appreciate that perspective, especially the way you put it. The other side of it is that Argentina was already in a deep hole when Cristina took power and needed real leadership. She knew this of course but had no interest in making difficult choices, she just spent more money that the country didn't have and stole surreal sums for herself in the process. Which made the inevitable crisis so much worse. I think the nicest thing you can say is she was a populist because at least some of it went to the poor.

Milei is making hard but necessary choices, and it's a terrible shame he can't see the forest for the trees on corruption. Your point about "who would they vote for" is well taken.

Mucho of Argentina is illiterate when it comes to politics or taxes and ultimately just comes down to is life easier or harder for them. Life with Milei is harder for most of them. He is giving a lot of public assistance to them which is what is saving them so far but these will probably be cut too and his support will be tough as most see things now how much has the President stolen but is life easier or harder or cheaper or more expensive.

Salaries have gone up but not as much as inflation so it doesn't matter.

 

[Betsy Ross]

Thanks Silvia, I certainly appreciate that perspective, especially the way you put it. The other side of it is that Argentina was already in a deep hole when Cristina took power and needed real leadership. She knew this of course but had no interest in making difficult choices, she just spent more money that the country didn't have and stole surreal sums for herself in the process. Which made the inevitable crisis so much worse. I think the nicest thing you can say is she was a populist because at least some of it went to the poor.

Milei is making hard but necessary choices, and it's a terrible shame he can't see the forest for the trees on corruption. Your point about "who would they vote for" is well taken.

The biggest problem and toughest narrative is that inflation is increasing and they have limited wage increases except on themselves. It's one thing if it's a "we all struggle together" and another with we will give ourselves big 150% salary increases and the rest of you have to fend for yourselves. That's the problem I am seeing now.

 

[Avocado]

We've been over this before, Avocado. Everyone here has been plenty critical of Milei, but I've yet to hear you say anything bad about the Kirchner's.

Look @CraigM. Does this sound like it is any better than Cristina? Insiders went to Milei telling him what his sister was doing and no response.

 

[CraigM]

Look @CraigM. Does this sound like it is any better than Cristina? Insiders went to Milei telling him what his sister was doing and no response.

No it doesn't, but he probably needs to steel another $9.95 billion before he ever catches up to her

 

[Edgardo]

No it doesn't, but he probably needs to steel another $9.95 billion before he ever catches up to her

4 more years and they just might get there.

 

[CraigM]

4 more years and they just might get there.

For a bit of perspective.... if you esimate Milei has stolen US$50 million so far (which may be way too high) and lets say he decides to really kick things into high gear and steal another $200 million over the remainder of his term. It's hard to see that happening with the IMF breathing down his neck, but let's just pretend Milei pulls it off and walks away from politics with $250 million in his jeans. He would need to repeat that accomplishment 40 times over to equal the Kirchner's $10 billion heist (per their chief accountant). It's easy to say "they're all thieves" but some are small-time amateurs while others are world-class kleptocrats.

 

[old fart]

For a bit of perspective.... if you esimate Milei has stolen US$50 million so far (which may be way too high) and lets say he decides to really kick things into high gear and steal another $200 million over the remainder of his term. It's hard to see that happening with the IMF breathing down his neck, but let's just pretend Milei pulls it off and walks away from politics with $250 million in his jeans. He would need to repeat that accomplishment 40 times over to equal the Kirchner's $10 billion heist (per their chief accountant). It's easy to say "they're all thieves" but some are small-time amateurs while others are world-class kleptocrats.

But didn't he scam crypto investors of $250 million from the get go? What if he and his big sis had 8 years?

 

[CraigM]

But didn't he scam crypto investors of $250 million from the get go? What if he and his big sis had 8 years?

No, the highest estimate I've seen is $5 million so it was probably less. The promoters made all the money in Libra. It was an idiotic scam that was guaranteed to blow up in Milei's face and I still shake my head at the stupidity of it.

True kleptocrats operate on a completely different scale. They have their hands in everything and are like a toll on a country's commercial activities.

 

[Avocado]

No, the highest estimate I've seen is $5 million so it was probably less. The promoters made all the money in Libra. It was an idiotic scam that was guaranteed to blow up in Milei's face and I still shake my head at the stupidity of it.

True kleptocrats operate on a completely different scale. They have their hands in everything and are like a toll on a country's commercial activities.

Yes I loved Nestor and Cristina but I will be the first to admit they robbed Argentina and its people. That is why Cristina should go to jail and that is also why Milei and his sister belong in jail. Does it matter if you steal $200 million or billions?

Look at this Craig. Tell me how this makes sense. People are starving here and trying to survive and the government stops this kid from selling alfajores. I'm ashamed of my government now.

 

[CraigM]

Yes I loved Nestor and Cristina but I will be the first to admit they robbed Argentina and its people. That is why Cristina should go to jail and that is also why Milei and his sister belong in jail. Does it matter if you steal $200 million or billions?

Look at this Craig. Tell me how this makes sense. People are starving here and trying to survive and the government stops this kid from selling alfajores. I'm ashamed of my government now.

I'm really sorry to hear that Avocado, it's terrible to see people suffering. I truly hope better times are ahead, no matter what it takes to make that happen.

In my opinion it matters enormously whether you steal X or 1000x. It's not just the obscene amount of money that kleptocrats steal but the message it sends to every other political and economic actor in society. Laws don't matter much anymore because everything is corrupt and susceptible to bribes, and trust is gone. It's very hard to recover once that kind of rot sets in.

 

[Avocado]

I'm really sorry to hear that Avocado, it's terrible to see people suffering. I truly hope better times are ahead, no matter what it takes to make that happen.

In my opinion it matters enormously whether you steal X or 1000x. It's not just the obscene amount of money that kleptocrats steal but the message it sends to every other political and economic actor in society. Laws don't matter much anymore because everything is corrupt and susceptible to bribes, and trust is gone. It's very hard to recover once that kind of rot sets in.

Thank you Craig. I can feel that you feel our pain. I hope things improve. It is very difficult the past 2 years with Milei.

Maybe you right on amount. I think most politicians do not care about law. Look at Adorni and everyone know anybody can get away with anything. I hope you are right and the things improve soon.

 

[ElQueso]

No, the highest estimate I've seen is $5 million so it was probably less. The promoters made all the money in Libra. It was an idiotic scam that was guaranteed to blow up in Milei's face and I still shake my head at the stupidity of it.

True kleptocrats operate on a completely different scale. They have their hands in everything and are like a toll on a country's commercial activities.

That goes to show you just how stupid Milei is. Out of the $250 made from Libra he only made $5M. That is just sad. Proof how stupid he is. If they were going to take the kind of heat he is taking he should have made more. Guaranteed to blow up in his face. He can't be this stupid but he is.

I'm really sorry to hear that Avocado, it's terrible to see people suffering. I truly hope better times are ahead, no matter what it takes to make that happen.

In my opinion it matters enormously whether you steal X or 1000x. It's not just the obscene amount of money that kleptocrats steal but the message it sends to every other political and economic actor in society. Laws don't matter much anymore because everything is corrupt and susceptible to bribes, and trust is gone. It's very hard to recover once that kind of rot sets in.

The level of thieving by Cristina is unparalleled. In the end she won't be able to spend it. Her family is banned from coming to the USA. Not too much they can do with all of that money.

I would like to think that Milei can turn things around but people are fed up. And inflation keeps going up.