Legal Any risk to constantly overstaying on tourist visa? How many times can you do border runs in Argentina?

[overstayed]

I hate to admit this on a public forum but like many expats, I admit it. I'm a perma-tourist. I am American and fell in love with Argentina about 6 years ago. I don't have the money to go through the legal process to get my DNI. I would totally get it as there is no downside for me as I don't own any assets in the USA or anywhere else.

I previously came a few years before covid-19 and I used covid as an excuse to stay here. Argentina I don't think cared and they knew I was trapped here. But now I can't use that excuse. I was going back and forth with Uruguay but the last time I went through last year the agent questioned me about how long I was spending in Argentina. I don't know if that was an overzealous customs official or if they have new software that will crack down. I don't speak Spanish but it sounded like he was warning me that I needed to leave Argentina soon.

I have been scared to do a border run and I'm just staying in Argentina. Other expats that I met said they just paid a fine and stayed and told me not to worry. Does anyone know why they hassled me the last time? Now that they don't stamp passports it's all digitized and I'm worried they can easily see how many days I have been here between border runs. I'm scared they will reject me coming in and all my stuff is here.

Please help with any advice. Thanks.

 

[VINO]

I have met a lot of tourists that are like you. I myself got my DNI as I didn't want to face issues like you are going through. I live here now and other than the occasional trip for Christmas to the USA, I stay here. I have a friend that had the same thing happen that you're mentioning. She was doing border runs to Colonia every 90 days and suddenly last year they told her the same thing. That she was breaking the law. She thought maybe the customs official wanted a bribe so she tried to give them $20 USD. That was a big no no! The agent didn't speak English and a customs official manager came out.

He scolded my friend for trying to pay something to the employee. They told her it was illegal to do border runs. They told her this was the last time they would allow it and told her they notated her file. She hasn't done a border run since as she is scared.

 

[Soytoy]

I overstayed during COVID but they didn't say anything at all. I am toying with the idea of getting my DNI as I come for work now a bit. I talked to an expat a few months ago that said his partner got rejected coming back as he overstayed and was doing border runs for years. The customs agent told him it was illegal to do border runs.

 

[Vero]

My friend that is an attorney said that it's better to overstay and pay a fine. I'm not an attorney so I don't know if this is correct or not. He told me that "visa runs" going over to cross the order every 90 days is illegal. He said he has clients that have gotten rejected at the border plenty of times but most of them were doing it for many years. He said they won't reject you if it's your first or second time. It's when they are abusing the tourist visa. See this:

https://servicios.infoleg.gob.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/165000-169999/167004/norma.htm

 

[naked]

My friend that is an attorney said that it's better to overstay and pay a fine. I'm not an attorney so I don't know if this is correct or not. He told me that "visa runs" going over to cross the order every 90 days is illegal. He said he has clients that have gotten rejected at the border plenty of times but most of them were doing it for many years. He said they won't reject you if it's your first or second time. It's when they are abusing the tourist visa. See this:

https://servicios.infoleg.gob.ar/infolegInternet/anexos/165000-169999/167004/norma.htm

This is probably true. I'm one of the unlucky ones that got denied entry. This happened a few years ago. I'm an American citizen. This happened when they were still stamping passports so I imagine now it's even easier for them to see the cumulative days you've been in Argentina between entry/exit. They told me that they could see I was living here and not a tourist.

It was pretty humiliating as I was living with my girlfriend and I had all my stuff there. They sent me back to Miami which I flew from.

 

[Under the Radar]

It used to be rare that they would reject you but now with technology and software it's easier for them to see how long you have been staying here. It formally was immigration officer discretion but now there is a formula and they are required to report it if it shows you have been overstaying your visa.

The world over it's going to be much easier to spot this sort of thing. With facial recognition and everything automated soon the government will know where you are at all times.

 

[Che Vos]

This is probably true. I'm one of the unlucky ones that got denied entry. This happened a few years ago. I'm an American citizen. This happened when they were still stamping passports so I imagine now it's even easier for them to see the cumulative days you've been in Argentina between entry/exit. They told me that they could see I was living here and not a tourist.

It was pretty humiliating as I was living with my girlfriend and I had all my stuff there. They sent me back to Miami which I flew from.

I am glad that the immigration official wouldn't let you in. You wouldn't expect the USA to allow ILLEGAL immigrants to overstay in your country so why do you think it's ok to do it in my country! All of you expats need to follow the law.

 

[Billy Goat]

Back in the day when they used to stamp the passports I had a ton of stamps as I was coming and going quite a bit. I never overstayed, extended or paid the over stay fee. I was always very careful to obey the laws. I think it's very important to respect the laws of any country. I would except people to do the same in the USA.

One time when I was leaving EZE for JFK they took my passport and said to wait. I think they assumed I overstayed as I had so many passport stamps. But she came back and said I was ok. I'm not sure what they were doing with my passport. This was a long time ago but maybe counting the # of days I stayed. Now all of this is all automated and calculated.

I thought it was ominous that Bullrich said any foreigners at the protests would get reported to immigration officials. If I were an expat that is planning to stay here long-term, I'd just get legal so you don't have to worry about this stuff.

 

[Vince]

It's shocking how many permanent tourists there are in Argentina. Most that I have met do NOT have a DNI and technically are here illegally. As others mentioned, it's illegal to do the visa runs. Probably once or twice or maybe 3 times won't matter but with the poor economy and the sour mood of the locals any given day you cross could mean adios.

I used to do these order runs all the time. One time going to Colonia I also got the warning. I think it was my 3rd time crossing. They let me back in but that's when I started the process.

Also, always pay the overstay fine when leaving. I would forget about the visa runs completely. I don't know if they won't let you in and you get a new passport # will that help? Or these days maybe everything is biometric now.

 

[Nasdaq]

It's shocking how many permanent tourists there are in Argentina. Most that I have met do NOT have a DNI and technically are here illegally. As others mentioned, it's illegal to do the visa runs. Probably once or twice or maybe 3 times won't matter but with the poor economy and the sour mood of the locals any given day you cross could mean adios.

I used to do these order runs all the time. One time going to Colonia I also got the warning. I think it was my 3rd time crossing. They let me back in but that's when I started the process.

Also, always pay the overstay fine when leaving. I would forget about the visa runs completely. I don't know if they won't let you in and you get a new passport # will that help? Or these days maybe everything is biometric now.

^^^^ This ^^^^^^^

Biometric is a game changer for immigration and customs and the governments around the world. I met an American permanent-tourist a few years ago. He was doing this for years and years. He was paying the overstay fees but one day they told him he was living there illegal. He said he was getting an attorney but I think the last time I saw him in Rio he said he got banned from Argentina for 5 years.

People should expect punishment when breaking the law.

 

[Avocado]

It is mind boggling just how many perma-tourists there are in Argentina. I have met many British and American tourists here that tell me they are living here for many years. I ask them if they have a DNI or married and they say no. Shame on all of you. You probably have the financial means to be here legally but you don't. You blame our politicians and you steal from Argentina.

 

[former expat]

Great forum. I just found it on Twitter. I used to be an expat in BA. Here is my data point.


For a good 8 years, I played the perpetual tourist game. I'm from Canada. I didn't have any issues at all and then wham bam one day when I was coming from Colonia they wouldn't let me in. I even paid the overstay fee. I got upset at first. Very upset. But the officer pulled me into the room and he spoke decent English explained that I was breaking the law and he was right. You have to know going into this that you're breaking the law.

 

[Betsy Ross]

I agree about just getting your DNI if you know you will live in Argentina. In my case it was easy and I bought a property and knew I'd stay. Of course until you know you will definitely stay here that doesn't make sense. But no one can argue that many expats here are permanent-tourists. I'm not judging if that is right or wrong. But you have to be ok with the possible penalties including not being able to come back for a few years. It doesn't seem worth it to me.

Argentina is always changing. What may be easy one year may not the next. The only thing certain about Argentina is there is NO certainty! That's why it makes sense to get your DNI once you know you want to stay.

My friend works at EZE. Your biometric data is all stored along with all your other records. They know how long you've been inside Argentina. It doesn't matter if you change your passport #. They know who you are. There is a reason they take your fingerprints.

 

[IrishLad]

I agree about just getting your DNI if you know you will live in Argentina. In my case it was easy and I bought a property and knew I'd stay. Of course until you know you will definitely stay here that doesn't make sense. But no one can argue that many expats here are permanent-tourists. I'm not judging if that is right or wrong. But you have to be ok with the possible penalties including not being able to come back for a few years. It doesn't seem worth it to me.

Argentina is always changing. What may be easy one year may not the next. The only thing certain about Argentina is there is NO certainty! That's why it makes sense to get your DNI once you know you want to stay.

My friend works at EZE. Your biometric data is all stored along with all your other records. They know how long you've been inside Argentina. It doesn't matter if you change your passport #. They know who you are. There is a reason they take your fingerprints.

I second this advice. Just get your DNI if you know you will stay here. To be fair, I was one of those perma-tourist for many years. Nothing ever happened to me but I always was nervous when I had to pay the over stay fee or making a visa run. I did have to pay a few thousand dollars but we expect illegal aliens to be legal in our home countries and hold ourselves to a lower standard here.

The turning point for me was when my mum back home was complaining about all the immigrants coming to the EU and not contributing to society. I thought she was secretly referring to me!

People have to remember Argentina is not some crummy third world country. And now with biometrics you're basically toast as they know everything. Just get your DNI!

 

[Canada Goose]

To be fair it's not just like you can instantly get a DNI. Some people aren't in the country for a long enough period of time. I definitely know I will stay in the future and working on a DNI but haven't gotten to the actual specifics of applying. I agree once you know you will probably stay in the country a long period of time.

 

[Betsy Ross]

To be fair it's not just like you can instantly get a DNI. Some people aren't in the country for a long enough period of time. I definitely know I will stay in the future and working on a DNI but haven't gotten to the actual specifics of applying. I agree once you know you will probably stay in the country a long period of time.

The first step is getting temporary residency. You don't just apply for a DNI and then get it. You have to have temporary residency first. Yes, you have to stay in the country more than 6 months per calendar year. You should talk to an immigration attorney so you understand the process if you really think you qualify and really want it.

If you're not in Argentina for that long and less than 6 months per year you don't need to do visa runs nor need a DNI. You can do the extension to stay but the question is at which point they will say you're just living here.

 

[All the Answers]

My friend is an immigration attorney and he said that most people get tripped up by constantly going on the visa runs to Uruguay. As others mentioned, a few times probably isn't an issue but those visa runs are illegal too. Overstaying is too. He said it's better to just overstay and pay the penalty. He said there are only a few times when his clients had issues when they were clearly living here for many years. He also said biometrics is a game changer.

I heard about a "3 strikes and you're out" but he said that there is no hard and fast set rule. He said it's up to the discretion of the customs/immigration official. And he said there is no real arguing if you've really been living here for years. Illegal immigration is illegal immigration.

 

[Rick]

My friend is an immigration attorney and he said that most people get tripped up by constantly going on the visa runs to Uruguay. As others mentioned, a few times probably isn't an issue but those visa runs are illegal too. Overstaying is too. He said it's better to just overstay and pay the penalty. He said there are only a few times when his clients had issues when they were clearly living here for many years. He also said biometrics is a game changer.

I heard about a "3 strikes and you're out" but he said that there is no hard and fast set rule. He said it's up to the discretion of the customs/immigration official. And he said there is no real arguing if you've really been living here for years. Illegal immigration is illegal immigration.

The 3 strikes rule is true. I have my DNI now and have for many years but several years ago I was also a permanent-tourist and I was specifically told by a customs/immigration officer that this was the case. I was on my 2nd overstay paying the penalty and they pulled me into a room and asked me a lot of questions. They told me that the third time I overstayed I wouldn't be allowed back into Argentina.

I never made it to 3 overstays because I was so scared. I don't know if this is true or not but they did pull me aside and told me this was the case. Who knows if it's really 3. My immigration attorney told me that it's different with each officer. They said it could be after the first if they are having a bad day. I have never heard of anyone having them reject after the first but I have heard of many expats getting rejected on the 3rd or warned after the 3rd.

 

[StatusNomadicus]

You can do the extension to stay

i asked about this here:

Travel - Travel options from Montevideo to Buenos Aires?

My husband and I will be flying into Montevideo next month and spend a few nights there and then will travel to Buenos Aires. I know there are a few different options. What would you all recommend? How long does it take on boat, plane, etc? We will be in Buenos Aires for 10 days.

www.expatsba.com

...have you personally done the 90-day extension to get 180 days total? @Betsy Ross or anyone else?

 

[Betsy Ross]

i asked about this here: https://www.expatsba.com/threads/travel-options-from-montevideo-to-buenos-aires.486/#post-3020

...have you personally done the 90-day extension to get 180 days total? @Betsy Ross or anyone else?

@StatusNomadicus you will NOT have any problem at all as you're not a perma-tourist. If I read your other posts correctly you just entered Argentina for the first time a few weeks ago. No, this issue doesn't pertain to you. This is for tourists that are truly living in Argentina for long periods of time over 1 year. You will NOT have issues until you go over 1 year or most likely multiple years. Previously I don't think most expats worried but now with biometrics and Bullrich specifically mentioning foreigners I think everyone needs to be more careful.

Yes, before I got my DNI I did several visa runs to Uruguay but those were different times. They used to stamp the passport and I'm not sure if the back office software at the borders really could see how many days you were staying instantly. My friend said they kept records but I'm not sure if it was right on the computer terminal like it is now.