They Charged You $2,350 to Leave. Now They’re Calling It Fair.

[Bharat]

It's not about loving the USA or not.

you Americans don't know how lucky you are to be from there.

 

[TonyTigre]

It's called focus, Sparky.

You clearly focused too much... zoom out a little... it's an ant hill... not a mountain.

 

[Betsy Ross]

you Americans don't know how lucky you are to be from there.

This is a great point. I thank my lucky stars that I am American. I see this chaos in the Middle East and have a few friends stuck in that war zone. People aren't grateful enough to be born in the USA or have US citizenship.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that gives up their US citizenship can go pound sand.

 

[Content Provider]

This is a great point. I thank my lucky stars that I am American. I see this chaos in the Middle East and have a few friends stuck in that war zone. People aren't grateful enough to be born in the USA or have US citizenship.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone that gives up their US citizenship can go pound sand.

Yeah, totally. Nothing says “freedom” like telling people they’re not allowed to leave without your approval.


And I guess the whole point of being American is… having the right to choose—unless it’s a choice you personally don’t like?


Wild how quickly “land of the free” turns into “stay put or else.”

 

[Peabody]

Yeah, totally. Nothing says “freedom” like telling people they’re not allowed to leave without your approval.


And I guess the whole point of being American is… having the right to choose—unless it’s a choice you personally don’t like?


Wild how quickly “land of the free” turns into “stay put or else.”

Cry me a river. This isn't barely anything. Only 5,000 people a year. Don't let the door hit you on the way out of the USA. That would be funny if they didn't allow them back to visit the USA.

 

[Nasdaq]

Small price to pay. Not many people are leaving anyway.

 

[Content Provider]

That would be funny if they didn't allow them back to visit the USA.

Why??

 

[MikeYoung]

Cry me a river. This isn't barely anything. Only 5,000 people a year. Don't let the door hit you on the way out of the USA. That would be funny if they didn't allow them back to visit the USA.

That would not be nice to penalize people for wanting to end their Citizenship. I'd assume they would have various passports so they could enter on those. The US wouldn't ban entry would they?

 

[Digital Nomad]

you Americans don't know how lucky you are to be from there.

Amen brother. I think about this more and more each day as the world is getting crazier.

That would not be nice to penalize people for wanting to end their Citizenship. I'd assume they would have various passports so they could enter on those. The US wouldn't ban entry would they?

Actually the USA can do this. I just looked it up. Scary.

The Law: The Reed Amendment​

Under U.S. immigration law—specifically the Immigration and Nationality Act Section 212(a)(10)(E), commonly known as the Reed Amendment—the government has the authority to bar a former citizen from re-entering the country.

However, this ban is not automatic just because you renounced your citizenship. The law specifically states that you are only inadmissible if the U.S. government determines that you renounced your citizenship for the primary purpose of avoiding U.S. taxes.

The Reality: Almost Zero Enforcement​

While the law sounds intimidating, it is virtually toothless in practice for a few key reasons:

• The Burden of Proof: The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has the burden of proving your subjective intent—meaning they have to definitively prove what was going on in your head when you renounced.
• Lack of Agency Communication: There is currently no regulatory framework or system that allows the IRS to automatically share your financial or tax data with immigration officers at the border to prove a tax-avoidance motive.
• Historical Data: Because the government has no real way to prove your motive, the rule is almost never applied. Between 2002 and 2015, only two people were officially denied entry under this provision, and in both cases, it was because the individuals explicitly and voluntarily admitted to border agents that they renounced to dodge taxes.

The Normal Rules of Travel Apply​

The much bigger hurdle for former citizens isn't the Reed Amendment; it is standard U.S. immigration law.

Once you officially renounce your U.S. citizenship, you lose the unconditional right to enter the country. You become an "alien" in the eyes of the law and are treated exactly like any other foreign national.

• You will need an approved ESTA (if your new nationality qualifies for the Visa Waiver Program) or a standard U.S. visa (like a B1/B2 tourist visa) to visit.
• Just like any other tourist, you can be denied entry if a border agent believes you intend to overstay your visa, if you don't have strong financial ties to your new home country, or if you have a criminal record.

 

[jbeas176]

content provider. i really like your thoughtfull posts. but i don’t like this side of you. please calm down. peace out

 

[jbeas176]

we left the other site because of aggressive behavior.

 

[JonJLA]

we left the other site because of aggressive behavior.

Agree this site has been super informative. I mostly lurk and just read posts. It's the only place I can come daily and find out information about Argentina. I realize life in the eyes of expats is not always too realistic as many are angry at the increased cost of living but we can balance it out.

Hate to see people angry or aggressive for no reason. I do like some content but always hate to see people aggressive for no reason.

 

[Betsy Ross]

we left the other site because of aggressive behavior.

I think sometimes it is difficult to undertake posts. I learned not to read too much into it.

 

[MikeAnton]

They Charged You $2,350 to Leave. Now They’re Calling It Fair.

For years, the United States charged more money to renounce citizenship than most countries charge for literally anything citizenship-related. $2,350. To quit. To say “I’m out, I don&#8…

journeyamerica.wordpress.com

I agree they shouldn't keep increasing the price. But all in all that seems like a small price to pay to end your obligation to the USA. I wouldn't dream of giving up citizenship even if I had a strong passport.

 

[CraigM]

I've been to a lot of third world countries and met loads of expats, and without exception the ones in their 60s or 70s were largely/entirely dependent on their US social security checks. I don't begrudge anyone collecting SS because that's the system, even if my taxes pay for 5 or 10 of them every year. Nor do I begrudge those who collect SS while bashing America because that's their right under the constitution, even if it's a bit off-putting sometimes. But the idea that any one of them would give up their SS checks because of their political views is just comical.

ROFL, as the kids would say.

 

[Wally]

I've been to a lot of third world countries and met loads of expats, and without exception the ones in their 60s or 70s were largely/entirely dependent on their US social security checks. I don't begrudge anyone collecting SS because that's the system, even if my taxes pay for 5 or 10 of them every year. Nor do I begrudge those who collect SS while bashing America because that's their right under the constitution, even if it's a bit off-putting sometimes. But the idea that any one of them would give up their SS checks because of their political views is just comical.

ROFL, as the kids would say.

I totally agree Craig. I also spent a lot of time traveling around the world. Much of South America and Southeast Asia and parts in between. Met lots of expats and almost all of them were living off of their SS checks. I always joked with my wife that I was supporting a lot of them. Many always complained about this or that about the US which as you say is annoying.

Most of my friends that complain about the US or high taxes or this or that pay in very little if anything. They are taking a lot more than they are giving. That's for sure.

 

[MikeRoss]

I've been to a lot of third world countries and met loads of expats, and without exception the ones in their 60s or 70s were largely/entirely dependent on their US social security checks. I don't begrudge anyone collecting SS because that's the system, even if my taxes pay for 5 or 10 of them every year. Nor do I begrudge those who collect SS while bashing America because that's their right under the constitution, even if it's a bit off-putting sometimes. But the idea that any one of them would give up their SS checks because of their political views is just comical.

ROFL, as the kids would say.

I wonder about many of these expats that are traveling around and not making much money. I met a few here in Buenos Aires at Meet Up events and they are always bragging how they are living off $1,500 a month. These are 20 something or 30 something year olds. Some in their 40's They are living on fumes and not paying anything into the system. I wonder how things will turn out for these people when they need to retire. I get scared for them!

 

[Content Provider]

I've been to a lot of third world countries and met loads of expats, and without exception the ones in their 60s or 70s were largely/entirely dependent on their US social security checks. I don't begrudge anyone collecting SS because that's the system, even if my taxes pay for 5 or 10 of them every year. Nor do I begrudge those who collect SS while bashing America because that's their right under the constitution, even if it's a bit off-putting sometimes. But the idea that any one of them would give up their SS checks because of their political views is just comical.

ROFL, as the kids would say.

Oh yeah, absolutely—because clearly every expat over 60 is just sitting in some crumbling café, clutching their Social Security check like it’s the last life raft off the Titanic. No nuance, no savings, no other income streams… just a global club of helpless Americans waiting for the monthly deposit to hit so they can order another coffee.


And I love the part where your taxes are apparently funding “5 or 10 of them every year.” That’s impressive math. You must be carrying half the retirement system on your back. Honestly, the rest of us should probably send you a thank-you card.


Also, the idea that someone might criticize the U.S. while still collecting benefits they paid into for decades—yeah, wild concept. Almost like… that’s how the system was designed.


But you’re right about one thing: people giving up Social Security on principle? Rare. Not because it’s “comical,” but because most people understand the difference between politics and the money they earned over a lifetime.


Still, I admire the confidence. It’s not easy to reduce millions of people into one tidy little stereotype and call it insight.

 

[Content Provider]

I totally agree Craig. I also spent a lot of time traveling around the world. Much of South America and Southeast Asia and parts in between. Met lots of expats and almost all of them were living off of their SS checks. I always joked with my wife that I was supporting a lot of them. Many always complained about this or that about the US which as you say is annoying.

Most of my friends that complain about the US or high taxes or this or that pay in very little if anything. They are taking a lot more than they are giving. That's for sure.

Ah yes, the global “SS freeloaders club.” Funny how you managed to meet almost all of them on your travels—what are the odds? It’s like there’s a secret handshake at immigration: “Here for the cheap rent and to personally drain this guy’s paycheck.”


And I’ve got to say, the image of you heroically “supporting a lot of them” from afar is pretty powerful. Somewhere in Buenos Aires or Bangkok, a retiree raises a glass and says, “Don’t worry, this one’s on him.”


Also interesting how these same people apparently “pay very little,” despite, you know… having paid into Social Security for decades. Minor detail, I guess. Easy to overlook when the narrative feels this satisfying.


But yeah, I get it—it’s annoying when people complain about the U.S. while living elsewhere. Almost as annoying as reducing an entire group of people to freeloaders based on a few conversations over beers in different countries.


Still, respect the consistency. It takes real commitment to travel the world and come back with the exact same conclusion about everyone you met.

 

[Content Provider]

I've been to a lot of third world countries and met loads of expats, and without exception the ones in their 60s or 70s were largely/entirely dependent on their US social security checks. I don't begrudge anyone collecting SS because that's the system, even if my taxes pay for 5 or 10 of them every year. Nor do I begrudge those who collect SS while bashing America because that's their right under the constitution, even if it's a bit off-putting sometimes. But the idea that any one of them would give up their SS checks because of their political views is just comical.

ROFL, as the kids would say.

Ah yes, the global “SS freeloaders club.” Funny how you managed to meet almost all of them on your travels—what are the odds? It’s like there’s a secret handshake at immigration: “Here for the cheap rent and to personally drain this guy’s paycheck.”


And I’ve got to say, the image of you heroically “supporting a lot of them” from afar is pretty powerful. Somewhere in Buenos Aires or Bangkok, a retiree raises a glass and says, “Don’t worry, this one’s on him.”


Also interesting how these same people apparently “pay very little,” despite, you know… having paid into Social Security for decades. Minor detail, I guess. Easy to overlook when the narrative feels this satisfying.


But yeah, I get it—it’s annoying when people complain about the U.S. while living elsewhere. Almost as annoying as reducing an entire group of people to freeloaders based on a few conversations over beers in different countries.


Still, respect the consistency. It takes real commitment to travel the world and come back with the exact same conclusion about everyone you met.