Newcomer More robberies in Argentina than anywhere else in the Americas

[Mart]

Just in case anyone missed this, Farenheit posted this link which is really scary.

More robberies in Argentina than any other country in the Americas (North/Central/South)
De hecho, la Argentina tiene la tasa de robos más alta de América , según un informe del Observatorio Hemisférico de la Organización de los Estados Americanos (OEA), que revela que el índice duplica la tasa promedio evaluada en 28 países americanos.

And wow - there are more murders here than in the US apparently. (Y vos?? )

En la muestra de la OEA la Argentina aparece con una tasa de homicidios de 5,5 cada 100.000 habitantes. Sólo tres países de América tienen tasas menores.
Canadá aparece como el país con mejor tasa de homicidios, con 1,5 cada 100.000 habitantes, mientras que Chile informó de 3,5 homicidios intencionales cada 100.000 habitantes, y Estados Unidos comunicó una tasa de 4,6 cada 100.000 habitantes.

 

[NicolaiSegundo]

Oh people, the above study is a plot by the IMF and the US government to take over the world. They just want to put down Argentina because Argentina is the best country in the world and is "a bad example" that the IMF doesn't like.

You know...its all a big conspiracy! The whole world does not like Argentina and they lie, they LIE, like Clarin, they all LIE!!

See? I just proved the above study wrong. Because in the US

 

[NicolaiSegundo]

On a serious note, this scares the crap out of me seeing that most crimes are not even reported in this country!

 

[Mart]

I'm sure someone will be along to argue shortly.

And I should rephrase, there are more murders in the US in sheer numbers due to population size but the percentage of murders is higher in Argentina with 5.5 per 100K of population here in Arg vs 4.6 per 100K in the US.

The scary thing is it appears these numbers are what each country reports. And we certainly all know that robberies/crime in general in Argentina are NOT reported. Which would put the robbery number even higher

 

[SerchMinm]

For years I've been reading on this board that crime is a lot worse in the US and that BA is a pretty safe place. Any opinion to the contrary was blasted for being retrograde. What happened to those expats?

 

[TrevorOD]

I just dont believe it, I call for a re-report...or something...(sarcasm).

Along with what citygirl has already mentioned about it being scary to think what the real numbers are given the amount of unreported crimes here, as well arent these numbers from 2010? I would think crime has increased significantly in Argentina since that time as well.

 

[TrevorOD]

For years I've been reading on this board that crime is a lot worse in the US and that BA is a pretty safe place. Any opinion to the contrary was blasted for being retrograde. What happened to those expats?

Or maybe the question is more, what happened to Argentina?

 

[earlyretirement]

I wish I could say I was surprised but this article doesn't surprise me at all. I still laugh at people that try to portray Buenos Aires as "safe as it is".

 

[Camerer]

I have a hard time believing that Argentina is the only one that misrepresents the numbers or that it's the worse city (for robberies or in general) of all of the Americas.

I'm not a crime denier -we live on guard like everyone else and take precautions in our everyday life to try to stay safe, and frankly I'm more than annoyed at the 'justice' system - but the little I know from people who lived in Venezuela, Costa Rica, or Colombia gives me the sense that Argentina isn't that bad. This isn't Juarez Mexico. Just as there's fear and a sense of uselessness of going to police here, I'd venture to stay it's the same in a lot of these other countries. Who is going to care about your stolen lawnmower if the police are busy with drug cartels and gangs? I think experience is more valuable than statistics in these cases when judging the relative safety of a city.

That's not to say Argentina doesn't have a crime problem... I just would take this 'report' and #1 ranking with a grain of salt.

 

[Chesse]

It wasn't a thread, it was comments by a few (or a couple of?) people who were saying that there is in reality not as much crime as everyone says, that it's more dangerous to live in the US (generally - then the discussions about specific cities and areas started) and other such things.

I think there were a couple of obviously Argentinos (one of which seemed to be a serious Kirchnerista) who were probably the most vocal.

I remember when this forum was full of people saying "BA - love it or leave it" as recently as a year ago whenever anyone said anything negative. Many more locals were active and acting in a defensive manner. The rest of us were looking to blow off steam for what to us was a combination of frustration and enjoyment of life here. A mutual sharing of frustrations that therapeutically helped us (I know it did me) manage the worse parts of living here.

Now, I think a lot of us are discussing these things in a slightly different light, because we're worried. Not scared s**tless or anything like that (at least not most of us). Those who visit or even are here for a year or so with intentions of moving on somewhere else or returning home, como sea, do not feel the same urgency as those of us who have lived here longer, or perhaps those who have lived in other places and have some experience of the possibility of bad things happening.

The truth is, I don't really feel unsafe walking the streets, even at times like 4:00 am when sometimes I come back from a buddy's house, or dinner, or something. I know others who do - because they've been robbed countless times. I never really figured I was a big guy (almost 5'11", about 210 pounds), but maybe here, where I've noticed that I am a bit above average in height, I'm seen as a big guy not to be messed with? I doubt it, particularly if a group want to assault and rob me. But only a very few times have I even felt that someone was following me. I've never had any close calls that I know of.

I've seen a few comments here and there about "naw, in this day and age that can't happen" when I or someone else has mentioned the possibility of Cristina installing herself as a dictator, for example. I honestly don't know how likely it is, but we watched Chavez install himself as such, while I was living here, we watched the Paraguayan congress oust a sitting president because he wouldn't play the game the way the Colorado Party wanted, etc, etc. We've watched a lot of kooky things happen here as well.

I don't know what's going to happen, and that's part of the problem. The unstable-feeling environment that the government has created here causes uncertainty for everyone who is paying attention. Many of us have had experience with how the system works here at its best (which often is not very good) and some of us have seen caught thieves either released before going to jail, or shortly thereafter. We've seen verified reports that murderers who have committed heinous crimes are released during trial and very shortly after sentencing to attend "Kirchnerista" rallies and disappear into buildings for hours or an entire night, with no guards. We know there are really relatively few police that for the most part can't be trusted in a pinch situation anyway, a large poor population in many scattered villas that can cause problems in unstable situations (imagine a few hundred thousand poor, hungry people looking at the "rich"...which here includes me and many [most?] of us as well, whether we think so or not).

I want to be able to get out before things get really bad. I don't have any desire to live under a repressive government. Indeed, I tolerated much of life in Argentina because for the most part the government left one alone, until recently, and the way things were was part of the price of not having Big Brother looking over your shoulder every minute.

I don't have a desire to feel unsafe on the streets. I already worry about the latter, given how many people I know DIRECTLY who have been robbed and assaulted, both on the streets and at home. I don't want to start experiencing it myself (selfish bas-tard that I am!).

That's why I talk about these things. Partly to discharge my feelings, partly to warn others that are thinking about coming here to really understand the situation before they come. This may be the "Paris of South America," but everything in this world is relative. A lot of people who haven't been here, or have made a few short trips, don't often understand that.

Having said all that, I almost didn't post here too, because the subject is starting to get beaten to death, I think. But I wanted to put out why I, personally, post at times in these threads about crime.

I don't care if BA is rated the most dangerous, or the least dangerous, in SA or the rest of the world. I know the US is safer in general, with obvious exceptions (where a lot of the crime in poor areas is between the inhabitants themselves) and don't feel like discussing or comparing that because it makes not one whit of difference about what's going on here.

Maybe the crime threads can take a rest for a bit, and in another month or a few weeks we can compare notes again and see where we are

The political threads now - things happen so fast here that it seems like there's always something new to talk about (or refute in some of the extreme cases, maybe!).

 

[earlyretirement]

Well, I'm not sure I'd go so far to say that "Buenos Aires isn't safe". I wouldn't use such strong language. I mean I walk around all hours of the day or night without much fear. I just am very aware of my surroundings and careful but I wouldn't say I find Buenos Aires "unsafe".

Just a lot of petty crime and increasing.

I try to always be objective. It's not as bad as some on the board make it out to be and make worse than the others that say it's totally safe.