Newcomer Buenos Aires in or out

[SanDiegoNoche]

I saw an article in youtube today that mentioned that many americans are moving to Argentina. Is there an inflow of americans moving to argentina or does everybody want to leave?

 

[SerchMinm]

That must be an old article. People are leaving, selling property and returning.

 

[earlyretirement]

That must be an old article. People are leaving, selling property and returning.

Exactly correct. The article had to be old.

Most of the wise ones already left in the last year or two and many others are planning to leave.

I know several Americans that are planning to leave this year or early next year.

But absolutely the article you read was old. People are moving out not in.

 

[Setse]

Exactly correct. The article had to be old.

Most of the wise ones already left in the last year or two and many others are planning to leave.

I know several Americans that are planning to leave this year or early next year.

But absolutely the article you read was old. People are moving out not in.

Everyday I ask myself, why exactly am I still here? The only real answer is I'm too lazy to pack everything up and find another job.

 

[earlyretirement]

Everyday I ask myself, why exactly am I still here? The only real answer is I'm too lazy to pack everything up and find another job.

Yep. Exactly Setse. I saw the writing on the wall about 2 years ago. I even remember posting some posts on this board a while back and reading from some posters that were denying there were issues/problems there.

Some were even praising CFK and her measures. But now I see those people aren't posting anymore. Or at least have wised up and aren't praising her anymore publicly.

I still come to Buenos Aires for work but I permanently left last year and it was the best decision I ever made! I'll always love Argentina but I certainly don't miss living there full time. Now, when I want to visit, I just hop on a plane and come down for a short visit or for work.

 

[earlyretirement]

I forgot to mention that I know several people (including some that are just retiring) that were planning to move down to Buenos Aires but they changed their mind and moved somewhere else.

They see all the craziness, restrictions, controls, import bans, non-functional banking system, increasing crime, strikes, 25%-30% annual inflation, and decided to retire somewhere else.

 

[CariBean]

Some expats used to say they were in Argentina to escape fascism in the US. Guess they decided US 'fascism' is not as bad as the current Argentine version.

 

[earlyretirement]

Some expats used to say they were in Argentina to escape fascism in the US. Guess they decided US 'fascism' is not as bad as the current Argentine version.

Hey Cari. Yeah, I remember reading all those sorts of posts on this and other boards.

Say what you want about the USA but it's a wonderful place to live. Yeah, it has it's share of problems but so does every other country. At least things work here.

People respect and obey traffic laws (for the most part), everything is totally efficient, it's very safe, wonderful variety and fresh food in the grocery stores, people are very friendly, wonderful customer service and great place to be a "consumer".

I didn't realize how much I missed it until I was back living here full time again. Just simple things like getting packages delivered daily without having to worry about getting extorted by customs, not having to bring a book to wait in line at the grocery store, being able to buy the food I want, not having to worry about using my Blackberry or Iphone or Ipad out in the street daily, and many other things.

Buenos Aires is much easier if you are able to come as a retired person or don't have to worry about working or owning a company there. That in and of itself would make it much easier not to stress about things.

I do agree that the rapid increase in the parallel market makes it more affordable but before the big difference, Buenos Aires was getting expensive. Even with it, I wouldn't consider it cheap.

I would disagree with the poster that says "Buenos Aires is still a good place to expat". I totally respect someone to have that opinion but I wouldn't consider it a "good" place to Expat with everything going on now.

 

[NadiaLIL]

I saw an article in youtube today that mentioned that many americans are moving to Argentina. Is there an inflow of americans moving to argentina or does everybody want to leave?

Depends who you talk to.

Everyone wants to think their version is the correct one. I visited Argentina in 2009, and 2010. The feeling and the mood of people on the streets and in my wife's family was actually quite positive. Things, they told me, were going well (even though 2009 was a slow year, economically) and the outlook was positive.

My wife and I moved to Argentina in the January of 2012, now every other person we meet or talk to, including my wife's family, can't wait to say something negative.

My father in law fought with his company to transfer him to Argentina so he could eventually retire here. He had been fighting for it for the last decade or so. And on top of that he visited Argentina every year. He said he missed the culture and his friends.

Last year, his company finally gave in and transferred him back to Argentina. Of course he was ecstatic and couldn't get on the plane fast enough.

This year, when my wife and I moved here, I asked him how he was feeling about his move back to his great country. He said, "If Cristina's bulls**t continues the way its going, I will leave as fast as I got here."

Right now he's staying put to see if the situation will somehow get better. He earns all his money in US dollars so the inflation isn't too harsh on him with the blue market. And he earns A LOT! Even so, he can't wait for things to change. He says its horrible and I agree with him. It is horrible.

But like I said, it depends on who you talk to. There are expats here, even on this forum, who say shallow things like "Oh but the chicks are so hot!" or "Oh meat!" or "At least I don't get robbed every day!" or "Hey, it is better than Nigeria!!!" or some other sh*t like that. I can guarantee that if you forced yourself to like this place, you won't be able to stand any kind of criticism of it no matter how true it is. And the fact is, you will be much happier than a lot of us who look at things realistically.

So on that note, for people who almost worship Cristina and Argentina will tell you that Americans or foreigners in general are moving to Argentina in droves ("they don't have enough planes in the world to move the people from Europe and America down to Argentina!!") and the other extreme are the people who will tell you that people are leaving in droves ("They don't have enough planes in Argentina to transport everyone out of here!")

But I think in reality, not a lot of people are moving here and neither are a lot of people leaving. And again, a lot of people who would have never left have left as well. And there is an increasing number of people who would leave if they could just get themselves to find a job elsewhere and pack up.

My wife and I are only staying here because of her job or else we would have left about a month ago, after six months of being here.

 

[earlyretirement]

Thanks Nadia for sharing that story with us.

Here is my take on things. Back when the financial system in the USA was crumbling in 2008 and 2009 and when it looked like the entire system was going to fall apart in the USA (which it almost did), people had this really bleak outlook on many things.

The job market, the stock market, the real estate market was drastically spiraling downward in the USA. People were getting foreclosed on and losing the homes they couldn't afford in the first place. It was pretty much chaos there.

You had CFK and others in Argentina trying to portray Argentina is this isolated place that was totally sheltered by a bubble. In a way it was sheltered because they are totally shut out of the financial markets, a pariah on the international investment community, real estate market was insulated (and still is in many ways) because people paid cash for their properties and they aren't leveraged so it was impossible for people to get foreclosed on like you had in the USA.

It was such a depressing situation for many that they actually made themselves believe that everything was honky dory in Argentina when that was far from the case.

It's like a situation where it takes a little kid to yell out, "the Emperor has no clothes on!".

Now, the stock market in the USA is at a 4 year high, real estate prices have bottomed out, and people have figured out there are far worse places in the world in worse shape like Europe.

Definitely I truly believe that far more expats are moving out of Buenos Aires (Argentina) vs. moving in. Back in the day, I met a ton of people that just moved down to Buenos Aires back in 2007-2010 because they lost a job, quit, laid off, lost their house, whatever. People were just escaping life for a bit and Buenos Aires was still cheap.

That is far from the case now. Buenos Aires, contrary to what some may try to spin is NOT a cheap place anymore. Yeah, there is a little more variety vs. a few years ago but let's be honest...most of those restaurants are serving VERY mediocre, OVERPRICED food for the most part.

You are VERY lucky if you're someone like Nico's father that can get transferred over there and get paid dollars. But that is VERY very rare to be that kind of ex-pat. And even he is complaining at how bad it is there and contemplating a move out.

From my 8 years of living in Buenos Aires I'd say the vast majority of the ex-pats were ones that were just getting by. Not making too much money, certainly not making dollars or euros but PESOS. Even if they had a decent job they didn't make enough to save for future retirement. No 401k and not the type that will retire in Argentina.

Even if you're earning US dollars, 25% to 30% a year inflation is still 30% a year inflation. It's not a cheap place.

Sure, it helps if you are lucky enough to already own a place there. Then it's not so bad and even with the higher costs, you can live in Buenos Aires fairly well rent-free and mortgage free. But again, I think that type of ex-pat that owns their own place is not too common. Most rent.

Back many years ago you could make a real case for Buenos Aires being a good "expat destination". Because the cost of living was very low so even with ALL the inefficiencies, hassles, red tape, it was almost still worth it.

But now I think it's very difficult to make that same argument. Add into the mix of it not being so easy to get cheap rentals due to guarantias, white/black exchange rates or whatever reason. Nothing is too easy in Argentina. That's just the plain truth of the matter.

 

[Chesse]

Yep. Exactly Setse. I saw the writing on the wall about 2 years ago. I even remember posting some posts on this board a while back and reading from some posters that were denying there were issues/problems there.

Some were even praising CFK and her measures. But now I see those people aren't posting anymore. Or at least have wised up and aren't praising her anymore publicly.

I still come to Buenos Aires for work but I permanently left last year and it was the best decision I ever made! I'll always love Argentina but I certainly don't miss living there full time. Now, when I want to visit, I just hop on a plane and come down for a short visit or for work.

Me too. Might have been more earlier 2010 when I started really wondering, but I think that was because 2009 was a really bad year for me anyway and I wasn't concentrating too much on what was going on in Argentina specifically. Too busy trying to save my business for reasons that had nothing to do with here.

No one believed me though. I posted a few things on the board, but had already found out that too many people who frequented the board in that moment were using the "love it or leave it" attitude many times on things that were even only slightly negative. I actually left off posting for a good time.

But family and friends didn't want to believe it. They couldn't see the beginnings of problems, or thought they were just slight little things because of the "crisis mundial" and what turned out to be the temporary drop in commodities futures. I had one or two expat buddies that were in agreement, if not a little too pessimistic, which of course tempered my own opinions a bit.

My family didn't want to go back to Paraguay at all. They didn't believe that anything was happening here. They didn't want to go back because they are tainted by having grown up dirt poor, and Paraguay is NOT a place where you want to be poor (neither is Argentina, but not as bad as Paraguay in my opinion). They weren't used to thinking in terms of how they could live there now, and even how they could help their own fellow countrymen if they did.

When Cristina started getting heavy on the currency controls, that changed for them. They were limited in how much money they could send back to Paraguay. When I first came here, the peso was something like 3,200 to the guarani and it really meant something to Paraguayans. Pesos were at least as popular in Paraguay as the dollar. Now, it's worth around 700 guaranies. Not only is it difficult to send money, impossible to send dollars, but what they send back is only worth a fraction of the value it once was. The base guarani unit is basically 1,000 (they are talking about stripping off the 3 zeroes soon), so the Paraguayans feel proud that their guarani is now more valuable than the peso!

Now they are all talking about going back and living in Asuncion for the most part. They are all talking about what businesses we can run there. One of my brothers-in-law wants me to back him buying cattle and butchering them and selling to carnicerias around a town near where the family lives outside of Concepcion. They have a couple of uncles that are butchers and are happy to butcher the cows for only half of the tripa as payment. They've made tentative deals with the carnicerias. The family can also sell meat to neighbors because there isn't a carniceria nearby where they live.

Places like Paraguay are open to opportunities. The government still sucks there, but for the most part they leave business alone. Argentina is going to find itself bereft of foreign investment, ideas, and workers, and is going to cause its own brain trust to leave if it's not careful, not to mention plunge everyone who doesn't leave (the vast majority, obviously) in terrible shape with little opportunities (again).

I thought I saw posted somewhere else about the new law being considered, related to forcing closed neighborhoods ("countries" and barrio cerrados) to remove their physical barriers, but couldn't find it again.

The reasoning for this new law is that the closed neighborhoods block too much traffic by not allowing cars to pass through and they must go around. That may be the case in the city, although I've never actually seen a country in the city. But out in the suburbs, I never noticed a problem when I was driving around. Hell, there are not many roads out there to begin with, certainly not many paved roads. Maybe they are talking about places like NorDelta and Tigre, Olivos, etc. I don't do too much driving around there, although in Tigre I have and haven't noticed a great issue although I saw many countries.

I think this is some kind of social brown-nosing being done by Cristina to garner more poor votes. Most of them are envious of the rich in a socialist way (i.e., envious and despising at the same time). They resent the wealth, they resent the isolation that the rich put themselves into (and I'm not even saying there isn't some valid reason for them to feel this way, here, at least to an extent).

But imagine what a big thing this is! Houses in the suburbs of any level beyond lower middle class are usually surrounded by walls out there, either individually or as neighborhoods. Why? Because there is a lot of thievery and an even lesser police presence than in the city. EVERY closed neighborhood has renta-cops (with guns) that attend the entrance(s) to the neighborhood and patrol the neighborhood regularly. They are rotated out every couple of weeks to avoid guard collusion in robberies.

When I was living out there in a closed neighborhood, we would have confirmed invasions of the perimeter at least a couple of times a month. A couple of times a week we would get a report from the security people that detailed security issues of the neighborhood. Most of the time it was unconfirmed breaches or animals, but at least twice a month they chased people off. Not once in nearly two years did we have an actual robbery, although the neighborhood on the other side of the street did (it was about 3 times our size).

It sucks to have to live that way, but Argentina isn't ready for the kind of neighborhood I had in the States. The streets there were open to the public, it wasn't gated or fenced in, except on the side with the cow pasture (we had woods along two sides of our closed neighborhood in Tortuguitas). But people didn't generally drive through the neighborhood in the States, for two reasons: one, they are planned (at least in the suburbs) so that they don't need to be used for through traffic and two, people in the States (well, at least in Houston) wouldn't drive through a neighborhood like that except in emergency because they respect the privacy of the inhabitants.

Plus, we didn't need more than the county constable driving through there a couple of times a night to make us feel secure. We had a real low crime rate in a neighborhood of almost 600 upper middle class homes, something like 4 actual burglaries a year. I never was broken into.

We had 50 lots, about 45 houses, in the closed neighborhood in Tortuguitas. It was a small one, sure. All around us were lower middle class homes open to the public streets, as well as upper middle class behind walls and a few countries. Yet still we had a criminal element. I know where they came from - not too far away.

To me, this is a direct assault on property rights. People in those neighborhoods paid for EVERYTHING on that land, including the walls and the roads. They are responsible for maintaining it. They sunk large chunks of money into a place they wanted to consider safe for their kids to play in and relatively safe for their possessions. It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with their lifestyle, or think they're idiots for it, whatever. They should be able to spend their money as they see fit.

Who's going to pay for the road maintenance now? How are the renta-cops going to secure their perimeter? How are the kids going to play in the neighborhood with traffic running through all the time?

Call it eminent domain if you want - I'm equally opposed to that.

 

[earlyretirement]

I think this board is MUCH better now because it seems like it's not overly moderated now. It seemed like before, if you were posting negative information or anything too against CFK, you'd have these "defenders" coming out saying how great Argentina was.

I also got a feeling that many on the board that it's "with us or against us" like somehow if you were posting anything negative against Argentina you didn't love it. Which is totally not the case.

Now it seems more balanced and I'm not sure where all these "I love you Cristina!" fans are now years later?

El Queso, it sounds like your family has more opportunities in Paraguay now vs. Argentina. There are a lot of places in the world where there are opportunities. But I wouldn't add Argentina too far on that list.

Anyone that owns a company of any size in Argentina knows what I'm talking about. If you do everything in white and pay all your taxes and play by the rules...it's very difficult there. Anyone that has lots of employees in white also knows what I'm talking about.

It's funny a few months ago I was emailing with an American ex-pat and she was trying to tell me how great it was still there. Then I ask her if she has her DNI. Nope. She is a permatourist and not paying taxes, not a registered corporation there and basically in black.

I guess it might be easier when you're not paying taxes, under the radar but try starting a legitimate company there and do things in white and look at all the rules, restrictions and red tape and you will have to agree that there are very few opportunities in Argentina now.

The Argentina of today isn't the Argentina from after the last crash. But who knows....maybe eventually after the next crash there is another "opportunity" there. But for now there are very few if none.

 

[CarliNeces]

I have been living here since 2008 albeit ( off and on), I still like my life here despite all the problems.

But I am a well traveled person. Every other week I am in US or another part of South America or Europe or Asia, cos of work.

So its not that its hunky dory everywhere else. Every place/country has its problems! One just has to adapt to a particular set of problems and decide whats works best for them. Or rather, what kind of problems is he ready to face. If the problems in Argentina are too much for him, then yes ""bolt from here". I find my life in US too depressing as a single guy, I can not imagine living there again. Personally, i would always prefer to live in a 2nd or 3rd world country ( which would always have problems) than a first world country. My lifestyle is to visit NY and London off and on for shopping every 3-4 months/ tasting interesting food/ buying latest fashion and gadgets and then returning to Argentina.

One country where I may consider shifting to, is Paraguay , though.

 

[earlyretirement]

I have been living here since 2008 albeit ( off and on), I still like my life here despite all the problems.

But I am a well traveled person. Every other week I am in US or another part of South America or Europe or Asia, cos of work.

So its not that its hunky dory everywhere else. Every place/country has its problems! One just has to adapt to a particular set of problems and decide whats works best for them. Or rather, what kind of problems is he ready to face. If the problems in Argentina are too much for him, then yes ""bolt from here". I find my life in US too depressing as a single guy, I can not imagine living there again. Personally, i would always prefer to live in a 2nd or 3rd world country ( which would always have problems) than a first world country. My lifestyle is to visit NY and London off and on for shopping every 3-4 months/ tasting interesting food/ buying latest fashion and gadgets and then returning to Argentina.

One country where I may consider shifting to, is Paraguay , though.

Definitely I'm not saying Buenos Aires is all bad. There are many wonderful things about the place. The vibrance and energy of the city will always have that going for the place.

Also, living as a single bachelor and living with kids are two totally different things. There are many positives from a bachelor point of view but once I had kids, life totally changed and I can't even imagine wanting to raise kids in the Buenos Aires of today.

Also, I agree every country has it's own set of problems but few rival Argentina. And I also think life is much easier when you have the experience to travel so often. Even just getting to taste your favorite foods is great. You can severely miss that if you live in Argentina day in and day out.

As far as living in the USA... I've always LOVED it as a bachelor. But Cerviche...once you get married and settle down and have a few kids...tell me if you enjoy living in Argentina as much.

 

[CarliNeces]

Definitely I'm not saying Buenos Aires is all bad. There are many wonderful things about the place. The vibrance and energy of the city will always have that going for the place.

Also, living as a single bachelor and living with kids are two totally different things. There are many positives from a bachelor point of view but once I had kids, life totally changed and I can't even imagine wanting to raise kids in the Buenos Aires of today.

Also, I agree every country has it's own set of problems but few rival Argentina. And I also think life is much easier when you have the experience to travel so often. Even just getting to taste your favorite foods is great. You can severely miss that if you live in Argentina day in and day out.

As far as living in the USA... I've always LOVED it as a bachelor. But Cerviche...once you get married and settle down and have a few kids...tell me if you enjoy living in Argentina as much.

I am 100% sure, things are not the same once you are married and have kids.

In a hypothetical situation, if I was married of today with 2 kids and a loving wife, this is what I would do :-

Live in a new continent every 2-3 years. The idea would be to give exposure to my children of different languages and cultures. I give a LOT of importance to learning new languages as kid. I would have them spend at least 3-4 years in South America, 3-4 years in USA, 3-4 years in Europe and 3-4 years in Asia ( in some very very poor country).

Crazy as it may sound but having traveled the whole world many times over, I feel every place has its issues and you would always miss something in some place.

Women in US, especially in NYC ( where I spent lot of time last few years) suck big time. Can not imagine living there anymore.

 

[earlyretirement]

I am 100% sure, things are not the same once you are married and have kids.

In a hypothetical situation, if I was married of today with 2 kids and a loving wife, this is what I would do :-

Live in a new continent every 2-3 years. The idea would be to give exposure to my children of different languages and cultures. I give a LOT of importance to learning new languages as kid. I would have them spend at least 3-4 years in South America, 3-4 years in USA, 3-4 years in Europe and 3-4 years in Asia ( in some very very poor country).

Crazy as it may sound but having traveled the whole world many times over, I feel every place has its issues and you would always miss something in some place.

Women in US, especially in NYC ( where I spent lot of time last few years) suck big time. Can not imagine living there anymore.

In principle that sounds great about living in a new continent every 2-3 years but in realistic real life situations, that isn't so convenient. We have several residences around the world so we do give our children exposure to other cultures, languages and countries. Our kids already have more stamps in their passport then most adults.

However, once they start school it's difficult for them to live in a new country every few years. They long for stability and normalcy. They want to be around their friends from school and get comfortable in their home.

We will always give them culture and they speak two languages and we probably will start a third language when they get older. But you can't imagine what it's like to be a parent until you're in that situation.

Life TOTALLY changes once you have kids. The responsibility and priorities totally change. You can have a game plan all mapped out in your head or on paper but I guarantee you it will totally change.

It's ok the first few years doing what you suggested and our kids have lived in and traveled to many countries. But once school age starts, it's not practical or convenient at all.

 

[Britni]

Personally, I think the US is a much cheaper place to live and work. I am not from the US and only visit it for business or vacation. During my last visit, I went to San Diego for the first time and was really surprised how cheap it was.. hotel, eating out, and of course shopping. NY on the other hand was more pricey.

 

[earlyretirement]

Personally, I think the US is a much cheaper place to live and work. I am not from the US and only visit it for business or vacation. During my last visit, I went to San Diego for the first time and was really surprised how cheap it was.. hotel, eating out, and of course shopping. NY on the other hand was more pricey.

Yes. That is totally true. Southern California in general is a paradise! Great weather, great beaches, very safe, sunny days and happy people for the most part. Sure California has it's problems, the State is broke and the job market sucks. But if you have a stable job and no debt it doesn't get much better, IMHO.

There are a variety of restaurants and as you mentioned, you can eat VERY well and very cheap in much of Southern California, especially San Diego.

Shopping anywhere in the USA seems like a dream for Porteños and everything is cheap. Clothing, shoes, electronics all are super cheap in the USA.

Absolutely many cities in the USA right now are cheaper than it is in Buenos Aires when you factor in cost of housing, cost of food, cost of medical insurance.

The only thing you have to consider is many cities are very spread out so public transportation isn't good like in NYC. Places like San Diego, LA, Dallas, Miami and many other cities you have to have a car. Whereas in Buenos Aires you wouldn't need a car.

But you are absolutely correct that you can live in the USA for as cheap as in Buenos Aires all things considered.

 

[CarliNeces]

Yes. That is totally true. Southern California in general is a paradise! Great weather, great beaches, very safe, sunny days and happy people for the most part. Sure California has it's problems, the State is broke and the job market sucks. But if you have a stable job and no debt it doesn't get much better, IMHO.

There are a variety of restaurants and as you mentioned, you can eat VERY well and very cheap in much of Southern California, especially San Diego.

Shopping anywhere in the USA seems like a dream for Porteños and everything is cheap. Clothing, shoes, electronics all are super cheap in the USA.

Absolutely many cities in the USA right now are cheaper than it is in Buenos Aires when you factor in cost of housing, cost of food, cost of medical insurance.

The only thing you have to consider is many cities are very spread out so public transportation isn't good like in NYC. Places like San Diego, LA, Dallas, Miami and many other cities you have to have a car. Whereas in Buenos Aires you wouldn't need a car.

But you are absolutely correct that you can live in the USA for as cheap as in Buenos Aires all things considered.

100% true!

@earlyretirement , would it be prudent to invest in property in USA?

And if I to make a choice where would it be better for returns, USA or BA.

And which city in USA.

Budget 200K.

 

[earlyretirement]

100% true!

@earlyretirement , would it be prudent to invest in property in USA?

And if I to make a choice where would it be better for returns, USA or BA.

And which city in USA.

Budget 200K.

I honestly believe this there was no better time to start buying in the USA than last year. This year is still ok but prices are already starting to move up.

As far as where the better place to buy property. IMHO you have to consider all the factors. Are you living to buy as investment or to live? Are you renting an expensive place every month? Lots of things to consider.

If it's a straight question of investment play, I think it's a no brainer and the USA is a much better play as long as you're buying in the right area.

Buenos Aires real estate is still pricey. I don't think now is a good/wise time to buy with all the uncertainty with the country, the laws, the restrictions, the controls. Literally nothing is positive about the country now. An eventual crash is likely in the next few years.

Sure, people can argue that real estate won't crash which is probably true. But you know what? It definitely won't rise too much with everything going on. In fact, there is a far greater chance real estate prices in Buenos Aires will decline rather in increase over the next 2 years.

So my thinking is why buy now?? Sure, if you're the type that will live there permanently then sure it can make sense if you find the right property. But it certainly isn't cheap.

My buddy just sold a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom property in Puerto Madero just a few short months ago for almost a million dollars.

Look at this gorgeous mansion you could have bought in San Diego last year for just over $1 million.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Diego/8282-Top-O-The-Morning-Way-92127/home/6481654

Notice the previous owner invested over $2 million into the place! So the patient value investor that picked it up for $1.1 million got a steal! You can't even build a new house for anywhere near that price! You're 15 minutes from the beach.

To boot, the monthly HOA fees are only $480 a month. My buddy in Puerto Madero was paying $1,300 US a month on expenses! Plus his ABL bills were HUGE and he had 1.25% annual property taxes a year. So where is the value in that??

I only gave an example above but I'm not saying it's the best investment play out there. But if you're going to buy as a capital appreciation play, DEFINITELY the USA is a much better play. In desirable cities, especially close to the beach, prices will pass the bubble prime prices I'd say over the next decade. Prices bottomed out, IMHO.

Not too much inventory in desirable areas at all. But if you are closely watching the market in many cities in the USA you can find some desirable investment plays.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/La-Jolla/5410-La-Jolla-Blvd-92037/unit-A209/home/6650919

Here is another example of an owner that got killed! He bought it for $847,000 at the top of the market in 2005. It's for sale for $399,000. Granted this will probably not go this cheap as it's a short sale. And also I'd stay clear of this building as the builder did a horrible job building it. But much of the new construction that went up in Buenos Aires have the same problem (or will) that are piss poor construction as this building.

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/housing/article_8a26ee30-7da9-11df-9cd4-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/the-scene/real-estate/Suing-Over-Construction.html

The only difference is in the USA the court system works. In Buenos Aires it doesn't.

I just don't think anyone should be rushing to buy real estate in Buenos Aires now. My feeling is why not stay in a holding pattern and see how things turn out? See if there are more restrictions, see if there are more controls.

Again, I'm NOT saying real estate prices are going to crash in Buenos Aires. Because I don't believe they will. But I just don't see anything in the near future or any impetus to make prices go up either.

Don't get me wrong. There are benefits to owning in Buenos Aires. I own an apartment in both Recoleta and Palermo and I stay in it free when I go to Buenos Aires for work or vacation and it's very convenient and it makes sense for me. But I also bought when prices were lower than they are now. I do enjoy owning there but I'm NOT a buyer today with everything going on in Argentina.

My 2 cents.