Banking 15% surcharge on foreign transactions on Argentine credit cards starting Sep 1

[AnaJuana]

Posted in the Pesos to Euros/Dollars thread but thought this warranted its own discussion, especially if people want to try some last-minute purchases before the surcharge goes into effect.

http://www.clarin.com/economia/AFIP-recargara-compras-exterior-tarjeta_0_764923763.html

Google Translate: http://translate.google.com/transla...ras-exterior-tarjeta_0_764923763.html&act=url

 

[Bakis]

15% isnt bad if the foreign currency (US$) is being converted at the official rate on the cardholder's bank statement inasmuch as the spread between official and parallel is over 30%.

 

[earlyretirement]

15% isnt bad if the foreign currency (US$) is being converted at the official rate on the cardholder's bank statement inasmuch as the spread between official and parallel is over 30%.

Funny and very telling that things are so bad in Argentina that people actually say it's not too bad to be charged an extra 15% for absolutely nothing using their credit card abroad. LOL.

 

[AnaJuana]

Funny and very telling that things are so bad in Argentina that people actually say it's not too bad to be charged an extra 15% for absolutely nothing using their credit card abroad. LOL.

Very true. Interesting that the BAHerald article mentions the amount paid in foreign transaction surcharge tax will be income tax deductible.

I assume this is deductible in the US sense where it reduces your taxable income, thus making the actual surcharge 15%*(1 - marginal tax rate). Works out to 9.75% assuming a 35% tax rate.

If they are saying deductible but actually mean tax credit in the US sense, then it wouldn't make much of a difference at all, save for the fact that you'd wait up to a year (with 25% inflation) btw. when you paid the surcharge and when you got a discount off your taxes. I'm assuming it's the former.

 

[Bakis]

Funny and very telling that things are so bad in Argentina that people actually say it's not too bad to be charged an extra 15% for absolutely nothing using their credit card abroad. LOL.

Maybe I misunderstand the surcharge. If I hold a Arg bank issued card, go to NYC, buy a US$100 widget using my card, when my statement arrives it will contain a charge of 460 pesos plus the surcharge of 69 pesos for a total charge of 529 pesos. In effect I am paying 5.29 pesos for a US dollar. Have I got it wrong?

 

[KurtLard]

This country is totally FUBAR. What amazing asshole thing will they think of next.

 

[earlyretirement]

This country is totally FUBAR. What amazing asshole thing will they think of next.

EXACTLY. That is the really frustrating thing.. You definitely know that there IS a NEXT thing coming. There has been a rapid fire steady chain of new restrictions and controls.

It's so bad that the locals are just waiting to hear the next one and hope it's not as bad as the last. They have the locals trained into thinking "oh that isn't so bad because it could have been worse" mentality.

That's when you know things are horrible. The sad truth is it will get worse before it gets better.

 

[NicolaiSegundo]

Kurt and others who think this isn't so bad and not only that but are trying to justify these moves--I'm thinking its one of two things: Either you guys don't have any idea what you're talking about or you're just so numb to all the changes that you just want to tell yourself "it ain't that bad, it could be worse" (like earlyretirement said).

There shouldn't even be a debate about this. It is 15% extra charge where there should be exactly NO charge. The only reason this was introduced is that they are unable to block credit card transactions internationally (like they did with debit cards) so they come up with this. There is no logical explanation embedded in the principles of Economics. This is plain theft from the people who are able to both acquire and use their credit cards internationally.

Let's stop fooling ourselves with excuses that aren't even logical and accept the fact that this government is powerful enough and bold enough now to pull off anything without having to give any reason for it whatsoever.

The Argentine people are numb. Very few care about what's going on and the rest are perfectly trained and experienced in shrugging their shoulders and reminding the ones who complain "ah, this is Argentina!"...yeah, we know it already!

 

[ScotGown]

Kurt and others who think this isn't so bad and not only that but are trying to justify these moves--I'm thinking its one of two things: Either you guys don't have any idea what you're talking about or you're just so numb to all the changes that you just want to tell yourself "it ain't that bad, it could be worse" (like earlyretirement said).

There shouldn't even be a debate about this. It is 15% extra charge where there should be exactly NO charge. The only reason this was introduced is that they are unable to block credit card transactions internationally (like they did with debit cards) so they come up with this. There is no logical explanation embedded in the principles of Economics. This is plain theft from the people who are able to both acquire and use their credit cards internationally.

Let's stop fooling ourselves with excuses that aren't even logical and accept the fact that this government is powerful enough and bold enough now to pull off anything without having to give any reason for it whatsoever.

The Argentine people are numb. Very few care about what's going on and the rest are perfectly trained and experienced in shrugging their shoulders and reminding the ones who complain "ah, this is Argentina!"...yeah, we know it already!

And how many times have we all heard that lame comment/excuse?
Que vamos a hacer? Es lo que hay...etc etc etc.
It don't wash any longer, especially when we are all being shafted up the rear end every day that passes.
And yes, Nico is right. They are all so omnipotent now that they don't actually have to either justify new measures or even give advance warning; which in itself is extremely worrying.

 

[earlyretirement]

And how many times have we all heard that lame comment/excuse?
Que vamos a hacer? Es lo que hay...etc etc etc.
It don't wash any longer, especially when we are all being shafted up the rear end every day that passes.
And yes, Nico is right. They are all so omnipotent now that they don't actually have to either justify new measures or even give advance warning; which in itself is extremely worrying.

Exactly. CFK and her administration use bullying and threats and even jailtime to anyone that dares to go against them. From the little guy that does a newspaper interview, to exchange houses, to even simple economists that dare say that the true inflation isn't the paltry, low, artificial, corrupt, fake rate that the government says it is.

Unfortunately the reality is until they can get an effective, ethical, intelligent leader in place, Argentina will never change. It will be chaos between 10 year or so periods of relative non-chaos.

 

[GraysPeack]

and I thought 3% Foreign Transaction Fee on U.S. credit cards was annoying.

 

[CariBean]

and I thought 3% Foreign Transaction Fee on U.S. credit cards was annoying.

Good thing Capital one is one or the only one may be, not charging any fees for foreign transactions...

 

[earlyretirement]

Good thing Capital one is one or the only one may be, not charging any fees for foreign transactions...

Nope. There are several credit cards out there that don't charge any Forex fees at all. There is the Citibank Elite World Mastercard (black) that doesn't charge me any forex fees. (But keep in mind the annual fee is $450 a year). My AMEX Platinum card doesn't charge me any forex fees either. (But $500 a year fee)

Also, they just came out with a Citibank Hilton Visa card that is only $95 a year and it also doesn't charge any forex fees.

I know there are a few others out there but I have all of these above and never get charged any forex fees which is great for people that spend a lot overseas.

 

[earlyretirement]

Even besides the 15% tax...I'd think the biggest thing to worry about is getting yourself on some list by AFIP. Their main goal in this isn't just about losing the spread on the white/black exchange rate. It's to get people that spend a lot abroad on a list and to basically audit them to see if they have been declaring all of their income.

If there is one thing that probably most people can agree on, Porteños HATE paying income tax and probably 95% evade taxes. So I don't think the biggest worry is paying 15% taxes on purchases. They fearful thing that maybe some people don't realize is that you will get yourself on a list and AFIP most likely will start auditing you and your past.

My friend was buying a lot of things with his credit card to get airline miles from his card. He was buying things for other friends and having them pay him cash. He said he got audited and it was a nightmare.

So I think people that are going abroad and spending lots of money can probably be expected to get on some list and eventually get audited.

 

[DavidPost]

I got an email at work saying the law came into effect today and credit cards will start applying the new tax from 1st October. I took this to mean that my card which closes tomorrow for the month will not be charged as the new period will start on the 6th august and quickly sent 300 dollars. Chances are I will still get screwed but maybe not.

I agree this is to try and cash in on the rich who have been bypassing the restrictions and even making money from it. They are not stopping the rich but taking a nice slice of the action. Those who don´t play fair will end up audited for sure

 

[HuxLex]

That's pretty scary. The 15% tax aside, this is quite the intrusion.

When I come back to the states, I often end up declaring nothing, because it's all minor stuff and I can't be bothered to remember what I've bought. I can't remember a single time where they even questioned me. To think that they'd go through my bank records to check is unbelievable.

 

[earlyretirement]

That's pretty scary. The 15% tax aside, this is quite the intrusion.

When I come back to the states, I often end up declaring nothing, because it's all minor stuff and I can't be bothered to remember what I've bought. I can't remember a single time where they even questioned me. To think that they'd go through my bank records to check is unbelievable.

But this is the point. CFK and her ilk are getting bolder and bolder and no one can really do anything about it. There is not really any true system of checks and balances there in Argentina with too much power with the Executive Branch..... so you will probably see more and more controls and restrictions.

As CFK sees she can get away with these things...you will see one worse than before.

 

[Camerer]

We're going to visit the States in a couple of months... this has put quite the wrench in our plans. 😛 What happens if you buy something for someone else abroad? Technically you wouldn't have to declare it because you're not bringing it into the country... how can they charge you a tax on something they're not sure you have? We're going at Christmas time and physical dollars aren't exactly easy to get, though I suppose it's better going to a cueva than having to pay 15% + 50% + ??% and an audit... 🙄

And as far as I know, credit card statements don't include "articulos", just the store you bought from and the total. Would they know the difference between a restaurant and a shoe store?

😡 What angers me more than anything is that this targets the average Argentine that can scrape enough together to travel, not the rich elite that are above the law, including Cristina herself. I'm sick of the currency games.

 

[Mart]

Rich Argentines don't care. They have their savings in dollars and foreign accounts and credit cards to use when they're shopping overseas. Poor Argentines don't care - they're never going to be traveling overseas anyway.

Who gets screwed - the middle class of course.

I'm so incredibly baffled by how blase people here are about this stuff. I am more angry than anyone I talk to and it doesn't really even affect me.

 

[earlyretirement]

That's EXACTLY correct. The middle class is who is taking the brunt of this. All the wealthy locals have accounts overseas already.